NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was a guest on the ESPN On Ice podcast this week, discussing a wide variety of topics. We touched on where the game has gone in the past decade, along with the latest hot-button issues -- from Alex Ovechkin (and others) skipping the All-Star Game, to the allegations of physical and emotional abuse committed by coaches -- as well as a look ahead to the 2022 Beijing Olympics, and the chances that the NHL's players will participate in the event.
Here's a transcript of our conversation with Gary Bettman's second-in-command, edited lightly for clarity.
ESPN: We are now into the 2020s.. When you look back at the last decade of the NHL, what are you most proud of, and what surprised you most about the way the league went in the last decade?
Bill Daly: Well, I'm certainly proud of the game on the ice, I think the game on the ice has never been better, never been more exciting, never been more unpredictable. Obviously I'm really proud of the competitive balance that we have in the league. I think it's the strongest in all of professional sports. And I know there are some people that might debate that that's good or bad for a sports league ... I've always subscribed to the fact that it's really good, and I think out business results have shown that. People like to see competitive games, people like to see tight races, people like to see unpredictable playoffs, and I think we've delivered all of that.
Obviously the growth on the revenue side has been impressive. The addition of one very, very successful franchise in Las Vegas, and the announcement of Seattle has been great, it will be great for the league. And I'm certainly proud of the fact that in an environment where youth participation in sports, particularly in this country, is declining, youth participation in hockey is increasing. While it's not massive growth, it is growth on a year-to-year basis, and a lot of that has to do with the commitment our owners have made to funding the growth of the game at the grassroots level. All of those things have put us in a really good place, and we're excited for the 2020s.
ESPN: Bill, I have to ask the one natural follow-up to that, which is: What's your biggest regret this past decade? What's one thing that you wish you could have gotten done, but you didn't?
Daly: That's a good question. I guess I don't think about that all that often. I'm not sure anything jumps immediately to mind. Obviously, you have disappointments and setbacks from time to time, on different issues -- different things around the game. You never like to see dangerous plays on the ice, and we continue to see them. But I think that the number of them are significantly down from where we were 10 years ago, so I think the game has gotten safer as it's gotten more exciting. So, as I sit here right now, I can't point to one thing that really has disappointed me.
ESPN: We just had the Winter Classic in Dallas, which was a huge success on the ground, 85,000-plus fans. Not so much on TV, unfortunately, as it was the lowest rated Winter Classic that we've had. I've been preaching from the pulpit that the ratings don't matter, but do they matter? And is the lack of television success for the Stars and Predators, two nontraditional markets, going to make you hesitant to put those kind of teams back into the Winter Classic, versus the Stadium Series?
Daly: No, I don't think so. We viewed it certainly, as a tremendous success. I think NBC viewed it as a tremendous success, because it shows how popular hockey can be in nontraditional markets. I think that the response that the fans had in Dallas, the response that the Nashville fans had traveling eight hours to Dallas to go to that game, is really a testament to fandom in nontraditional markets. The ratings were always going to be a challenge, with respect to those two markets, because that game still relies very heavily on local ratings, and those two markets don't have our strongest local ratings, but we knew that going in.
We also had the misfortune of drawing pretty strong competition on the college football front, which I'm sure didn't help things. But again, I don't think the ratings caught anyone by surprise -- certainly not NBC, not us, and I don't think it really has a major impact in a negative way, with respect to what we do.
ESPN: Bill, we're nearing the All-Star Game, which is always one of our favorite events of the year. A few years ago, you guys changed it to the 3-on-3 format which is wildly successful, and seems fun for players and coaches alike. I'm just curious if there's any appetite to change the format going forward? And a follow-up to that, Alex Ovechkin is not coming for the second year in a row. Is that a concern for the league, that it could be a trend, and is that something that you would have to work out with the players' association to amend the rules there?
Daly: Yeah, both good questions. I think the All-Star Game by its very nature is a challenge, and needs continuous attention and needs to evolve over time to make sure it's as compelling as it can be. From a competitive standpoint, it's never going to be very representative of what our game is, but from a skill standpoint, it can be spectacular. And I think that with a 3-on-3 format, that's what we've tried to highlight. I think we have to continue to make changes and consider changes over time. I think you'll see some wrinkles in this year's format, which should be announced sometime before the game.
I think that we've alluded publicly to the fact that we and the players' association are talking about some type of international flavor to the All-Star Game next year. So while that's not finalized, it's certainly something we're in discussions on, so I do think you'll see some more modifications and evolutions to the event next year, and I think that's always going to be the case the All-Star Game. The all-star events serve a very important purpose for us. We gather around and can celebrate the game, and can celebrate it with our business partners at an event that everyone enjoys. But everyone knows going in that it's not like Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final in terms of the intensity, and it's never going to be. As long as we understand that, it's something that we have to continue to work on and make as interesting as it can possibly be.
In terms of player participation, is that a concern? I think it's a concern. I believe that there has to be a little more urgency among the players to make this a priority, because I think it is a priority, should be a priority, and really is one of the job responsibilities when it comes to being a professional ice hockey player. When you are honored to be selected to an All-Star event, it's in every player's contract that he has an obligation to perform in that All-Star event. And while we've instituted some changes, and some consequences, to refusing to participate, obviously in some cases, those haven't proven effective. I was the first to defend Alex Ovechkin's decision last year, to take a year off because he has been fabulous in terms of helping the league, and promoting the sport and the game, including at the All-Star Game every year. So last year I was much more willing to look the other way on something like this. But two years in a row, I think it's probably something we need to address with the players' association to make sure that doesn't become a trend.
ESPN: Do you see a situation, where you might seek to increase the penalties for skipping it, instead of just the one-game suspension?
Daly: Well obviously that's one of the things we have to look at. Look, I don't think the answer to every problem is to look to discipline people. That's never been Gary's style, that's never been the league's style, and that's not what we're looking to do. We do want to make sure that everyone understands that this is an important event. And it's not something that we should bypass lightly. We'll seek the help of the players' association in instilling that sentiment to players on a more increased basis.
ESPN: I was wondering, first off, where the investigation into the Bill Peters situation in Carolina stands, and secondly, what's been the feedback since you and Gary unveiled that four-point plan, to try and deal with coaching abuse, and some of the issues with diversity that we've had in the league, with the coaches?
Daly: Well, with respect to the investigation, we have retained an independent, outside firm to investigate various of the matters that came to light in November and early December, and that's in process. I can't give you an exact timetable, but we obviously want a thorough look into those matters to at least to at least inform us on as to where to go from there.
With respect to the reaction on what Gary announced coming out of the board meeting, I think the reaction generally has been very positive. Obviously, we kind of went from the board meeting right into the holidays where a lot of people were on vacation. In some respects, business hasn't really returned to normal, so it's hard to give you day-to-day feedback, but I think the feedback we did receive both at the board meeting and after from the clubs, and really from the hockey community, was really positive. I think people were surprised by the revelations that came out in November and December, but I think everyone welcomed the opportunity to take a look at it, take a look at ourselves, have a discussion, and make improvements. Because we need to make improvements.
ESPN: Last year at the All-Star Game, we saw women participate and they demonstrated at the skills contest. Is there a chance we'll see some of the top women's players back at this year's game, and might they be doing something different, I don't know, like a 3-on-3 tournament instead.
Daly: I would expect that there will be women participating at the All-Star Game.
ESPN: An air of mystery from Bill Daly! As you know, I love the National Hockey League; I want nothing but world domination for our sport. World domination would probably include something in the Olympics. I tell everybody; if you want the players in the Olympics, talk to the IOC. But I would be remiss if I didn't mention that (IIHF president) Rene Fasel said this week that he would like to have a yes or no response from the NHL about Olympic participation in 2022 by the end of August. Do you think that's a reasonable deadline, do you respect that deadline, and do you think that we're going to know for sure before the end of August whether we're going in 2022?
Daly: I happened to hear Rene's interview as well. I love Rene like a brother, I've been working with him now for 23 years, my entire time with the league, and I get to see him probably even more than the commissioner gets to see him, because I get to go to some of the international tournaments that the commissioner can't go to due to his responsibilities here. So I consider Rene a friend, but, I'll point out that Rene sent us both a letter, about four or five months ago, that set the deadline of December 15 of 2019 for our participation, so take [the new one] for what it's worth. Apparently we have a new deadline that we are working against. I can't handicap how likely it is we'll have a final decision by August or really by any other date. I won't reiterate what Gary says every time he's asked the question, but obviously it is a challenge, and it presents challenges to our clubs; it's not something they particularly enjoy their players participating in.
But even before you get to that stage there are two things: One, we have no indication that the IOC is willing to do what they did for us for five consecutive Olympics, which is reimbursing our clubs, or paying for player insurance, or reimbursing the players for travel, and associated expenses with attending the Olympics. If that continues to be their position -- and we have no indication that their position has changed -- I'm not sure there is much of a chance of Olympic participation happening. Secondly, we recognize that the players want to participate by and large, if not universally. That's a relevant factor to us certainly. And we were engaged in discussions with the players association, with respect to a potential CBA discussion. I hope to re-engage in those discussions at some point. And my guess is Olympic participation will be apart of those discussions. But until that happens, I'm not sure anything changes on the Olympic front.
ESPN: Just as a quick follow-up, you've been so active in trying to grow this game internationally. And China's been such a focus. Would it be sort of a personal bummer if we don't get a chance to go over there and be on that stage, in a place where you've worked so hard to lay roots?
Daly: As a hockey fan, the Olympic tournament is a great tournament. It's fun to watch, it's great. With my business hat on, representing the league and the interests of our owners, there are certainly negatives associated with Olympic participation. And I think people underestimate those negatives in jumping to the conclusion that you should definitely participate. So I see the pros and the cons. Obviously when we have made the decision to participate and we do participate in the Olympics, I think it's a fabulous tournament. It's the best players in the world, and you can't beat that, so I certainly acknowledge that fact.