Professional wrestling careers, at least not successful ones, aren't supposed to start at the age of 26. But don't tell that to Bobby Fish, who, at 40, feels like he's just now coming into his own.
After more than a decade in the business, Fish caught fire as one half of reDRagon with Kyle O'Reilly. The pair found massive success in both Ring of Honor and New Japan Pro Wrestling, and that ultimately led both men to find greater success as singles wrestlers as well.
Fish is now on the precipice of arguably the biggest singles opportunity of his career this weekend -- a shot at Adam Cole and the Ring of Honor world championship on Saturday night in front of a packed ROH crowd at Manhattan's Hammerstein Ballroom.
ESPN.com recently caught up with Fish to find out more about the origins of his career, his success and the status of reDRagon, and what he expects in the main event of ROH's "Manhattan Mayhem" pay-per-view.
ESPN.com: Most professional wrestlers dive right into the business at 18, or at least by the age of 21. What was it, at 26 years old, that finally brought you into the wrestling business?
Bobby Fish: I'd say from about 9 years old to when I stopped playing around my early 20s, early-to-mid 20s, [it was all about] football. I played football in college, at Siena, a I-AA school, so it wasn't like we were a huge football powerhouse like Notre Dame. But it was college football, nonetheless, so it did require the time commitment, and focus. That's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to keep playing. I was not under any disillusion that I was supposed to be NFL, but I did think I could play after college. Things just didn't work out with a couple of Arena teams.
So how did that lead to wrestling?
Fish: When what was once a running joke with my childhood friends, that I would become a professional wrestler, started to seem somehow in this crazy world, tangible. Then I was like, "Well, how do I do that?"
I knew that I did not want to go into the nine-to-five world. I was pretty sure that wasn't for me. Not that I didn't work jobs to pay bills, I most certainly did. But I knew I had to come up with a plan B, and pro wrestling ended up being that next chapter of my life.
So you start training in upstate New York. How do you go from that to appearing in Pro Wrestling Noah in Japan for the better part of the next decade?
Fish: I went to a camp held by Harley Race. Don't remember the years exactly. I want to say it had to be 2005, because my first trip for Noah was at the end of 2006, so this was either a camp in 2005 or in 2006. And the camp, you went to for a week, and they were going to pick two people to come over and go to the dojo, to live in the dojo for three months.
So, I went to the camp, and when I got picked, I didn't find out until months later. I was preparing myself to go live in Japan for three months and train in the dojo. But then when I got my itinerary, I thought there was a mistake, because the date seemed as though it was only three weeks.
I figured, OK, my dates are just incorrect, and I called Harley, and Harley double checked, and whatever that process was. And they came back to me and said, "No, no, three weeks is right. You're coming over here, not going to the dojo. You're just coming over to start. You're going to work the tour."
So you head out there and eventually form such a strong relationship that you continue to do tours over there for the better part of the next decade. Looking back, I see that from the very beginning, you were doing occasional appearances for Ring of Honor. How did that happen?
Fish: I think I came back into the fold with Ring of Honor for brief instances because I had a decent relationship with Gabe Sapolsky. I was one of the guys that came in and paid my dues. Tony DeVito was my trainer, and he was working for Ring of Honor at the time. There was a group of us. We were always respectful, followed the protocol, set up the chairs and did whatever it was that was asked of us.
You have these bunches of appearances that carried through the Adam Pearce era, too. What was that time like for you?
Fish: I went in for a couple more one-offs. I remember one match, and that was when I first met the [Young] Bucks. It was me and Silas Young wrestling Matt and Nick in this tag team they threw together, ironically enough. And we worked Matt and Nick in one of their early ROH matches.
So you're touring with Noah, making these occasional appearances for ROH, but nothing's really clicking in North America on a bigger scale for a long stretch. Did you ever have any doubts?
Fish: I kinda hit a bit of a crossroads in pro wrestling. I had both of my daughters at the time. It was kind of like, OK, what am I doing with this? Am I gonna continue to pursue this, or is it time to maybe keep wrestling but focus on real world stuff and let wrestling just be something I do?
Ring of Honor represented unfinished business. I always felt unsatisfied with what I had produced there. And when I became aware that there might be some interest on their part, and there was a little bit of back-and-forth, it was like, OK, you know what, I'm gonna give this one last go.
So was there some kind of grand plan from the beginning there, or was it more like catching lightning in a bottle?
Fish: I did a couple more one-offs, with discussions of where we [might] go down the road, and one of the things that was brought up was maybe a tag team with Kyle O'Reilly. At the time, I was open to whatever they wanted to do. I don't remember the exact layout of things, but I think it was in Pittsburgh they teamed Kyle and me together for the first time.
In the beginning, the team coming together was kind of a result of some of the issue with Davey [Richards] and Kyle needing to be resolved. And then Davey and Eddie [Edwards] are tagging, and then Kyle and I come into this team, and it just sort of started to make sense.
I think all the stuff that came after that, that stuff was unexpected. I think Ring of Honor realized, "Oh s---, we've got something here." Things went well, and from there the progression once the two of us got together, the acceleration of that progression ... I don't think any of us expected it.
What do you attribute that chemistry and instant success to?
Fish: I think we had both been guys who were always willing to do the extra stuff. We were always willing to work harder than the rest of the room. When you put two guys like that together, then yeah, everything does get accelerated because you've got two go-getters.
What we did not realize was the dynamic between us and how well we would get along. I mean, we were always friendly over the years, and then in passing we would run into each other. We're both big mixed martial arts fans. A lot of common ground. But I had no idea until we started interacting how well we played off of each other.
So within a few months you guys are challenging for the ROH tag team titles, and then ultimately you hold them on three separate occasions, to say nothing of going onto New Japan and winning a couple of titles with Kyle over there as well. What do you look back at and remember most about those years in reDRagon?
Fish: Two title reigns [in New Japan], three title reigns in Ring of Honor. A couple of Tokyo Domes under our belt. New Japan had discussed us moving up to the heavyweight tag team division, but we were kind of in that process at the time, starting to do some more single stuff with Ring of Honor.
Going over to New Japan and then the Tokyo Dome, that experience the first time, or the second time, I can't imagine it ever getting old. That was the stuff, I think, as kids we envision. Walking onto that sort of stage with that sort of pyro with 40 or 50,000 people in the building is kind of the stuff you dream about.
Ultimately, you both went on to more singles action, but kept occasionally getting together again as a tag team. Was there ever any talk of a breakup?
Fish: I think we had done so much tagging, and neither one of us were interested in doing the cliché split. But we both knew that we were probably headed in slightly different directions for a little while, which I think we both welcomed. Not that we ever wanted to leave reDRagon, but I think it was time to do something different. It definitely benefited the company for us to do something different.
It just kind of made sense. Let's both pursue some singles stuff, and whenever we want to get the band back together, we'll get it back together, but let's do this singles thing for a bit. That's kind of where we are now.
Your singles run really got started with a pursuit of the ROH TV title. What do you remember most about that early stretch?
Fish: For me, pursuing Roddy was kind of the beginning of the TV title push. I really enjoyed the stuff that I was able to do with Roddy. And then Ishii was the final step into that actually becoming a thing.
To be allowed the opportunity to step up with a guy like Ishii ... who was trusted by the office in New Japan the way that he is? I mean, Christ, is there anybody with more belts or five-star matches? I mean ... I don't know. I don't think so. To be a guy that had a majority of his success at that point in the tag ranks, and let's not mince words, an argument can be made for me being a tag team specialist at that time. Same thing could have been said for Kyle. So to break that mold, yeah, it was fun. It was a challenge.
The TV title thing was a chance for me to really spread my wings and just fill out a little bit more as a performer.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this match with Adam Cole on Saturday is only your second shot at the ROH world title. Tell me about that first match, and what it meant to your career.
Fish: I wrestled Jay Briscoe when he was in the thick of his run as world champion. I was given a world title match against Jay Briscoe, and at that time I was considered a tag team guy, and nothing more than that. It was kind of a throwaway. It was presented to me that way, and I knew that that was it.
I thought, "Well, I can go, and I can just have a good match with the champ." But I looked at it more like, "Can I convince that building that they're gonna see, and want to see, a title change?"
I put in a lot of the extra work, I feel, in that lead-up. It was at the ECW Arena, and it was me versus Jay Briscoe, and that building wanted to see the title switch that night. That was a moment for me. Jay Briscoe is loved, and deservedly so, by the Ring of Honor audience, but that night, Jay was not the one with the support in that building. It was me. I don't think officials saw coming.
It was what people, I think, fail to see when they see me sometimes. I think they see that I'm capable, but they don't realize how capable. That night was my opportunity to try and show them that. Now this Saturday is my opportunity to do that once again, and that's exactly my plan.
What are your expectations for the match, and for that Hammerstein Ballroom crowd?
To me, it's what pro wrestling is. It's making those moments. It's not wins and losses. It's not how many moves you know how to do, or how many flips, it's creating moments. Stone Cold in the sharp shooter with blood running down his face against Bret Hart before he was the Stone Cold that we know him to be. That's a f------ moment.
It's the moments that you remember, and the only way for the moments to happen are when multiple things align properly; when you've got the right guy, in the right scenario, against the right opponent, in the right city in front of the right crowd. Most of the time, if you were to try to lay it out perfectly, you'd never accomplish it.
Every once in a while, all of those things line up, and then that's when you have a moment. And for me, I feel as though all of those things are lining up for this Saturday. There will be a moment.
What that moment is still needs to play out, but I guarantee you the moment involves me, and it involves Adam Cole, and it will be a moment.